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# Still more on pass versus place betting

9 February 2019

I received a follow-up question to an article about pass/come bets vs. placing the number after the point is established.

Jerry,

Thanks for replying. One other question about this play. If I use the pass line for my initial bet, then I would have the benefit of the higher probability of a win on the come-out roll. Would this improve the odds on this type of strategy? In addition, by placing the numbers I eliminate the losses of the come bets on a 7, so does this improve the odds?

Gary

Hi Gary,

The mathematical house edge in craps takes all situations into account. With a pass or come bet, the player always has the edge on the come-out roll. The house always has the edge after the point is established.

Place bets always have a house edge – and that edge, even the lowest edge on a 6 or 8 (1.52), is higher than the house edge on a pass or come bet even with any odds backing it (1.41).

When (multiple) come bets are added after the initial pass line point is established, they also can win with a 7 or 11 even though the pass line loses on the 7. This is what most players seem to forget. They remember when they lose the pass line and two come bets, but they forget the winning come-out come bets.

Doing research for one of my very first articles I kept track of all my pass and come bets for a complete summer of play. Guess what? The math of the game worked. While the numbers for my moderate sample weren’t exact, they were very close. Given enough time, they would have zeroed in on the mathematical average.

Here is what I learned from this exercise. Not only did I tend to forget the winning come bets before they moved to a point number, I also tended to forget when I won a come bet that moved to a point number but ultimately lost the pass line bet. Sometimes I would win the come bet with odds on a number and then win the very next roll with a come bet on come-out. All I tended to remember was losing the pass line bet.

Remember, Gary, except for the odds portion of a pass, come, don’t pass or don’t come bet every bet in craps has a house edge attached to it. Simply put, the more you bet, they more you will lose (in the long run).

Here is a suggestion. Bet just one pass line bet. Back it with the highest odds bet you can afford (or that the house allows). That’s it — one bet with the house edge on only the base portion. Though I did not always bet this way on random shooters, I do now. I learned the lesson of the math the hard way — by losing more than I had to.

The rating will most likely not be there when you bet this way, but what you receive in ratings is only about a fifth to a third of what you lose. You can afford to pay for whatever comps are offered and still be money ahead.

However, if you feel you are getting comps that outweigh (whether in actuality or enjoyment value) your losses, feel free to bet any way you like. It is your money.

When I play, however, it is always about winning (or surviving the longest at the table). I will give myself the best chance to do just that by limiting my betting on random shooters to only one bet — the best bet.

May all your wins be swift and large and all your losses slow and small.

Jerry “Stickman”

Jerry “Stickman” is an expert in craps, blackjack and video poker and advantage slot machine play. He is a regular contributor to top gaming magazines. He authored the video poker section of "Everything Casino Poker: Get the Edge at Video Poker, Texas Hold'em, Omaha Hi-Lo, and Pai Gow Poker!" You can contact Jerry “Stickman” at stickmanjerry@aol.com.
Recent Articles
Best of Jerry Stickman
Jerry Stickman

Jerry "Stickman" is an expert in dice control at craps, blackjack, advantage slots and video poker. He is a regular contributor to top gaming magazines. The "Stickman" is also a certified instructor for Golden Touch Craps dice control classes and Golden Touch Blackjack's advantage classes. He also teaches a course in advantage-play slots and video poker. For more information visit www.goldentouchcraps.com or www.goldentouchblackjack.com or call 1-800-944-0406 for a free brochure. You can contact Jerry "Stickman" at stickmanGTC@aol.com.

#### Jerry Stickman Websites:

www.goldentouchcraps.com
www.goldentouchblackjack.com
Jerry Stickman
Jerry "Stickman" is an expert in dice control at craps, blackjack, advantage slots and video poker. He is a regular contributor to top gaming magazines. The "Stickman" is also a certified instructor for Golden Touch Craps dice control classes and Golden Touch Blackjack's advantage classes. He also teaches a course in advantage-play slots and video poker. For more information visit www.goldentouchcraps.com or www.goldentouchblackjack.com or call 1-800-944-0406 for a free brochure. You can contact Jerry "Stickman" at stickmanGTC@aol.com.

#### Jerry Stickman Websites:

www.goldentouchcraps.com
www.goldentouchblackjack.com