What would you do if?

4 April 2017

By Frank Scoblete

It's a simple question for you:

The floor person takes the dice away from the shooter (for whatever reason: he isn’t hitting the back wall, he’s throwing the dice into the dealers’ chips; he’s obnoxious to other players) and the stick person passes them on to the next shooter. You have come bets with odds on several numbers and a pass line bet with odds as well.

These are often called "contract bets" as in they must be resolved and cannot be taken down.

But when you placed those bets you were betting on the current shooter and now the dice are taken from him. Let us speculate that you did not want to bet on the next shooter. Must you? Can you take those contract bets down? After all, you did not place them on the next shooter.

How do you see this situation? What would you do if this happened to you?

CHUCK: A contract bet is a contract bet and it doesn’t matter who is shooting since the game is strictly random. You are stuck with a contract bet until it is resolved. You should know that before you make the bet.

MEL: What if that shooter is the only one at the table with you and you do not want to shoot? Must you wait for other players to come to the table to finish your “contract”? What if you need to be somewhere? Do you give up the bets to the casino? The casino didn’t win the bets. I think you should be able to take them down in a situation such as that.

WILLIAM: I actually had this happen once. The shooter was drunk; shooting the dice all over the place and half the time the dice bounced off the table. The shooter was a nasty drunk too. So the floor person came over and took the dice away from the guy. I did not want to bet on the next shooter because he was a “don’t” player. Bad vibes you know what I mean, so I asked if I could take my “come” bets down because I didn’t want to bet on the next shooter. There was a little conference and they let me take the bets down. They made a loyal customer that day. None of the other players took down their contract bets.

BRAD: There are no actual laws that tell the casino what to do in this case. Each casino can do it the way it pleases. In fact, I guess each floor person or pit boss might make different decisions even in the same casino. What if the guy who wants to take down a contract bet is a high roller who has lost a fortune over time at that casino? I’d guess they would allow him to take down his bets. Why lose his valuable business? And what about a low roller? How much can it hurt the casino to allow the person to take down those contract bets? But at the end, the casino makes its own rules about such things.

KENNETH: I made a contract about the shooter. I wanted a pass line bet or a come bet on that particular shooter and I will abide by that. But if the dice are taken away from that shooter, then I feel the contract is over. I would want my bets returned to me. That seems fair.

MORRIS: Here is the problem as I see it from the casino’s perspective: You have benefited by the come-out rolls or the initial placement of a come bet. You have a two-to-one edge on those initial placements. But now in the part of the hand where the casino has the edge you want to take down your contract bets. What if a shooter voluntarily gives up the dice; can you take down your bets then? You could create a scam where you have a friend start shooting and then he gives up the dice. Now you ask for your contract bets back. That is not an easy choice for the house to make. I know this for a fact: Casinos tend to be suspicious of players who try to do things differently. I am guessing most casinos would not allow a person to take down a contract bet.

BEN: So don’t make those contract bets. Just do “place” bets. OK, OK, I am kidding around. I think the casino bosses should look at each case and make a decision. By the way, I don’t think too many shooters have the dice taken away from them. No doubt that would cause conflict and conflict wastes time and the casinos want as many decisions as they can get. I think you just have to state your case and hope the bosses agree with you. If not, I guess you are stuck with the bet.

PAULIE: Even in a simple casino game things can get complicated. I go along with the idea that the individual pit boss has to make the decision and if I were a pit boss I would lean towards the players in such a case. I’ve played craps for a long time and I never saw anyone ask to take down his contract bets, but I guess such a thing could happen.


Frank Scoblete’s new books are I Am a Dice Controller: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Craps!, Confessions of a Wayward Catholic and I Am a Card Counter: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Blackjack. Available at Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, Kindle and at local bookstores. Visit Frank's website at www.frankscoblete.com.