The wonderful craps 5-Count

19 May 2015

By Frank Scoblete

FROM MATT (First E-mail): I ordered your book "Casino Craps: Shoot to Win" and found it entertaining and informative. I did have some comments to make but first I want you to know a little about me.

I am 70 years young and about 30 years ago I started frequenting Resorts International and the other casinos in Atlantic City. At first I played slots (never won) and after losing $90 one night (back then THAT was a lot of money to me) I decided to learn a table game. First I studied blackjack and was totally bored because I do not like card games. In fact I never sat at a table in the casino, so that idea went out the window.

Next I meandered in the casino and walked up to a craps table and it looked really interesting. I pulled out $20 to test the water. Keep in mind I knew NOTHING about the game. I played the Big 6 and Big 8 with their whopping 9 percent house advantage and lost my $20. I did learn a lesson... and I had fun... and I wanted to learn how to play the game.

So I went to the local bookstore and purchased a book about casino craps written by the Playboy consultant on gambling, Edwin Silberstang. That book was worth its weight in gold... not at first, but in time it was the one book I recommended to other players.

My favorite casino was Caesars and $2 tables were hot back then. The more I played, the more I learned. In fact I used to win about 9 out of 10 times! I had self-control, money and knowledge of the game. I shied away from the game when the limits went from $5 to $10 games. Now, I hardly play at all because I cannot afford to play as I used to. I believe I have mastered the modern game of craps and have never lost an argument with a dealer. I switched to playing video poker (9/6 machine) and have held my own, but I love craps the most!

I just wanted you to know that I am not your average run-of-the-mill craps player. I like to learn and was fascinated by your book but I don't always agree with certain things printed in your book.

The 5-Count method to me is a way of figuring that a shooter MIGHT be on a hot roll because as you said, the 5-Count method starts with a point number and ends with a point number and then the betting begins. It makes perfect sense because no one ever had a monster roll by establishing a point, throwing a few more numbers, then sevening out.

Besides, it makes perfect sense to bide your time at the craps table to get comps even if you lose.

The one thing I did not agree with was that just because a number has not appeared on the dice it doesn't necessarily have to appear soon. You said that type of thinking was wrong.

Silberstang suggested doing the following: take a pair of dice and throw them against the wall recording the numbers appearing on the dice. Don't worry about making points or throwing the 7... just roll the dice for 144 times (4 x 36 possible combinations) and study the results. You probably are aware of this exercise but I would bet that most craps players never tried it. Anyway, I was convinced that the numbers appeared in a pyramid, so I called it the pyramid method of betting.

The 7s would form the apex of the pyramid, and then the 6s and 8s and so forth. I was surprised at the results even though it was not a perfect pyramid. In a long roll of the dice (whether or not the shooter makes his point) the numbers will appear in a pyramid starting at a particular number. So what? I do not want to clock the throws of the dice because if a shooter is hot, then I should get in on the action. Of course all the numbers will appear eventually. When I step up to the table I look at the rails. If they are full of chips I know that the dice are probably passing and that might be a good sign. But we both know that the dice have no memory and we cannot anticipate the next roll.

Next time I visit the casino I will try the 5-Count... not that I believe I will win, but I will probably stay on the table for a longer period of time.

I thoroughly enjoyed your video on TV. By the way, if you respond to this e-mail, who exactly is The Captain and The Arm?

Thank you for writing an excellent book on craps. I picked up a lot of pointers.

FRANK RESPONDS: Silberstang was a great gaming writer. I enjoyed reading his books way back when. He had a lot of intelligent things to say. I have to disagree with your disagreement with me. In any short series of rolls -- and 144 rolls is shorter than short (a million is rather short too) -- streaks and numbers will appear. That’s the nature of randomness, but the upcoming streaks are not predictable in order for you to overcome the house edge.

I think you will find the 5-Count will do exactly what I said it would. It will reduce your exposure to the house edge and allow you to play for a more extended period of time.

FROM MATT (Second E-mail): I went back to the craps tables and have tried the 5-Count... and it works! Suddenly I have turned from a player into a timed machine waiting for the 5-Count to happen. It made me realize that I lost a lot of money (years ago) by immediately making Come and Place bets right after the come out.

I have become aware of all the idiots who spread their money all over the table only to have the money erased by the mighty 7. I never spent enough time at each session because I was down with two other people and the 5-Count takes PATIENCE. After four outings I am actually a little ahead in the money column. Not everyone can have a great roll at the table and this method keeps me in the game longer and a little ahead. I don't play for comps but maybe I should.

Thank you for your good advice!

FRANK RESPONDS: Thank your for your great e-mails. You nailed the 5-Count; it will give you more time at the table and if a good roller appears you will have money to bet. The 5-Count can’t overcome the house edge but it does the next best thing; you will not bet on 57 percent of the random rolls.

Just make sure you are making the best bets at the game and you will be in a really tight contest with the house.

I am sending you two books, “The Virgin Kiss” and an early craps book of mine “Forever Craps” which has the biography of the Captain.

Frank’s new book is “I Am a Dice Controller: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Craps.” To contact Frank, e-mail him at fscobe@optonline.net.