5-Count wagering

12 August 2014

By Frank Scoblete

FROM DOUG: I enjoy your articles, insights and analysis on craps and I especially like your 5-Count method. It is only the past year or so I could get to the Philly casinos a few times a month and I am a very small bettor at this point … $10 Pass Line and 1x odds.

It seems that the 5-Count method works well much of time but not all. I keep track of not only how many Pass Line wins and Don’t Pass wins there are while I am in a casino but also Come Out wins on each. I compare the 5-Count method to just betting the Pass Line on every shooter.

On days when the Don’t Pass edges out the Pass Line, I can still end positive for the day … no small feat! On a hot table, I may realize less total winning than Pass Line bets on every shooter because I probably miss out on some Come Out wins before the 5-Count. But I will give up a small amount of potential wins to avoid larger losses and the 5-Count method does seem to help me miss out on many of the quick outs.

Anyway, I do have a few questions and challenges that I’d appreciate your insight into.

After the 5-Count ends, I now place a Come Bet and take my 1x odds. Sometimes, though, the shooter hits his point before my Come bet, so then I set a Pass Line bet and now I end up with two numbers working … and out he goes before either hits.

I thought about placing 6 and/or 8 instead of that initial Come bet but for whatever reason, I do not do well on Place bets. The other day, I kept track and I was 0 for 7!

I said today I will only Place 6 and/or 8 and no Pass Line bets and I get clocked. On the other hand, times when I bet just the Pass or Come using the 5-Count, I can do OK many times and fare better than if I had bet Pass Line on every shooter.

So my question here is twofold: Why do I have such a bad experience with the Place bet? Should I abandon it altogether or is there a use for it? I often think that after the 5-Count is ended, place bets would be better than Come bets … on a Come, I have to hit the same number twice whereas for Place bet I have two numbers work for a little more than my come + 1x odds and then I can also take it down after the shooter makes a point and then I can play the Pass Line instead with only one number at risk. But I seem to do better with Pass/Come bets and not Place bets.

Also, another question: One trend I’ve come across where the 5-Count hasn’t worked well and maybe you have advice on how to play that situation is a new shooter hits a Come out 7 or even makes a point before the 5-Count and I miss out. No big deal, it happens. But after the 5-Count I then bet the Come (or Pass Line if it coincides with him hitting his point) but some days, seems he goes out quickly and I’m not realizing many wins. I’ve seen that trend a few times now and often many shooters do the same thing on the same day.

Unfortunately the Philly casinos are not close to each other so it is not easy for me to just go to another casino, and most times only two tables are open at each place. And if one is a $15 minimum, instead of changing tables, I usually stay at the $10 min. I thought about attempting some Don’t bets but I don’t like them for a number of reasons, most of which is that on any roll, even after three or four Don’t wins, the next one could be the Pass Line win I’m looking for.

I really would appreciate your insight on the above situations.

Thanks again for all your great efforts.

FRANK RESPONDS: You do not have to make a Pass Line bet once you have a Come bet up as you wrote. Just stick with the Come bet. Yes, your bet is in danger of the 7 but it is still only one bet, not two.

I don’t know why you are getting clocked with Place betting the 6 or 8 but evidently you have had a bad streak with those numbers. Doesn’t matter. Using Come and Pass Line betting is the superior way to play.

You can’t do anything about the shooters who make it past the 5-Count and then seven-out right away. That’s the price you pay. There are no hedge bets to help you out either as they come with far higher house edges. And, yes, there are some nights when many players will seven-out right after the 5-Count. An awful fact of craps life.

If you were to put a Don’t bet up after the 5-Count, the house edge is still about the same as a Come/Pass bet so you can stick to Come/Pass betting.

I am sending you one of my new books, either “Confessions of a Wayward Catholic” or “The Virgin Kiss.” You choose.